"BaconSandwich is tasty." (baconsandwich)
12/30/2016 at 09:19 • Filed to: None
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"BaconSandwich is tasty." (baconsandwich)
12/30/2016 at 09:19 • Filed to: None | 0
| 47 |
Mrs. Baconsandwich and I bought a house. It has a detached double car garage, which is unheated and un-insulated. I don’t have the exact dimensions in front of me, but I’m curious - roughly what would it cost to insulate? I came across this stuff, which seems decent:
!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
Unfortunately the garage walls are only 2x4, so that limits what I can do, unless I somehow double up studs to thicken the wall.
Eventually I’d like to experiment with passive solar heating it, but that’ll be much longer down the road.
Has anyone here had to insulate a garage before? Any guesses on how much it would cost to insulate?
ttyymmnn
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 09:29 |
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I read that as “cost of insulting a garage” and expected a long story of how you got in trouble for telling a repairman to shove off. In any event, I have no idea how much it would cost to insulate a garage.
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BaconSandwich is tasty.
> ttyymmnn
12/30/2016 at 09:30 |
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Ha ha!
Phyrxes once again has a wagon!
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 09:32 |
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If you are feeling adventurous you can go with DIY blown in instead of the pink rolls. Should still be close to what mkbruin said give or take machine rental. But doing walls with blown in is slower than doing doing an attic so the non DIY route is significantly more expensive.
Frenchlicker
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 09:37 |
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I think cost depends on how much you are willing spend versus what you want/want to accomplish.
OPPOsaurus WRX
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 09:40 |
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so lets say that you do this yourself, and your garage is 22'x22'. lets also say that the walls are 8' tall. that is about 700 sq ft walls and 484 ceiling.
at 40 sqft and $15.93 a roll, for 18 rolls thats $286.74.
at 31.25 sq ft and $19.48 a roll, for 16 rolls thats $311.68
so thats about $600 for just insulation, add tax and other shit like staples and strapping and your probably around $700. Double that if you want some else to do it. You’d probably want something to cover up that insulation too, plywood or sheetrock, or if your going cheap some plastic sheeting.
Tekamul
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 09:40 |
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I am considering doing the same thing, the only thing holding me back is free time. I thought it was going to be very quick, using precut batts, but once I started measuring, I found that my pockets were too tall (9' 4") and every stud was a seemingly random width away from the previous (sloppy bastards).
ArmadaExpress drives a turbo outback
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 09:42 |
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If you have the space, I would try adding additional lumber to the support to allow for better insulation. Spending the money now will save you a bunch down the road, and will make the garage heating that much more efficient. It’s something you can do slowly as your time and budget allows.
merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 09:46 |
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If you figure the garage is a basic two car size, you’re talking 24' x 24' but let’s figure 26'x 26'. That’s three walls that require full insulation, so 78LF, then add the sides of the garage door, another 10LF, so you are looking at 88LF of wall to insulate full height. Then multiply by 12" and then divide that by 16" (stud spacing) and you come to 66 cavities to fill with insulation full height, then if you figure the walls to be 10' high, you end up with 660LF of roll insulation. The rolls are 32' long, so divide the 660 by 32 and you get 21 rolls needed. 21 x $10.78 and you’ll be looking at $230 to insulate the walls. An insulated garage door is roughly $1000 installed, but then you need to address the roof as well. But you can figure the wall insulation amount again to get you a rough idea for the roof insulation, so you’ll be looking at $1500 or so for materials and a new installed garage door. Then if you want to finish the walls, you’ll have to factor that in as well. With the materials only budget of $1500, I’d figure an overall budget of $2000-$3000 to do it all and get you a finished space with heat and lighting. But if you are looking to strictly do the insulation, you should be good with the $500 budget and then figure out the door later.
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OPPOsaurus WRX
> Tekamul
12/30/2016 at 09:47 |
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you can get rolls and cut them to length with a razor
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Tekamul
> OPPOsaurus WRX
12/30/2016 at 09:50 |
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Yes, that’s what I’m going to have to do now, get rolls, cut for length AND width, which just pisses me off, and takes 5x the time.
shop-teacher
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 09:56 |
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Insulating is one of those jobs where you often save precisely jack squat DIYing, because the insulation contractors buy so much of it, they get it much cheaper. I’d at least get a couple quotes. It’s not a fun job.
If you’re considering going to the time and trouble of doubling up studs for more R-value, then you’re the kind of guy that would be interested in spray-foam. You get more R-value and every air gap sealed. The stuff is amazing. I did my entire second floor walls/ceiling/roof with it and my heater up there hardly runs at all unless it’s really cold out (I’m in Chicagoland). It’s about two or three times the price as fiberglass, but if you’re planning to stay in the house a long time it will more than pay off in lower utility bills. It’s actually cheaper to have a contractor do that than to DIY. It cost me $4k to do my job (which was much bigger than your garage), but if I DIY’d the job it would have been more like $7k.
random001
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 10:07 |
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Happy national bacon day!
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OPPOsaurus WRX
> Tekamul
12/30/2016 at 10:08 |
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whats your width?
My house is 100 years old, and framed with rough lumber, so the cavities weren;t even a consistent width top to bottom, each bay was a slightly different width as well
Pickup_man
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 10:09 |
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I did mine last year, 24' x 24', 10' walls, I waited until insulation was on sale, and did it all myself, with the help of my dad. With all the insulation (including the entire ceiling), plastic sheeting, staples, and 3/8" OSB for the walls (was going to go 1/2", but 3/8" saved me like $150) I think it was around $600-$700. I don’t remember the exact cost, but I do know my entire project, which was adding 11 outlets, several shelves, lights, insulation, sheeting, and finishing the ceiling (already sheet rocked, had to re-tape/putty/paint) was well under $1000. I’ve got 2x4 walls and even with fiberglass insulation it holds heat very well, most days 2 space heaters are enough to make it comfortable to work in.
Best pictures I can find of the whole garage just to give you an idea.
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Tekamul
> OPPOsaurus WRX
12/30/2016 at 10:11 |
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That sounds like it sucks, and I haven’t even thought to check if it’s straight top to bottom.The thing was only built in ‘96, it shouldn’t be this bad.
The pockets vary from about 13" to 16 1/2", all measured roughly in the middle.
BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 10:16 |
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If you don’t mind losing ~1" of width each side (which I’m guessing you don’t if you’re talking about doubling up the studs) I’d recommend sticking a layer of 1" Cellotex on the inside of the walls. Works very well for that additional piece of insulation.
Not sure if it’s called the same thing in the States, but google it and I’m sure there will be something similar.
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OPPOsaurus WRX
> Tekamul
12/30/2016 at 10:19 |
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thats kinda fucked up. who built it? it should be 16" o.c., especially being that new
Wacko
> OPPOsaurus WRX
12/30/2016 at 10:23 |
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100% yest on the plastic sheeting, cause you don’t want humidity to stay in the insulation.
gmctavish needs more space
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 10:26 |
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I did a similar project to Pickup_man with my dad in his garage. He fixed a lot of other things first that aren’t relevant to insulation as long as yours isn’t too drafty. Several outlets added, built lots of shelves, and insulated and drywalled the whole thing. I don’t remember the exact cost but it was in the neighbourhood of $1000 including the drywall I believe
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Tekamul
> OPPOsaurus WRX
12/30/2016 at 10:41 |
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IT SHOULD. What’s crazy, is it’s just the long exterior garage wall. It’s not under the rest of the structure, just supporting the garage roof. The rest of the house is fine, I haven’t seen any odd stud placement.
I looked through the permit history to see if something was changed, but it’s apparently original. I think they had the B-team working a Friday afternoon.
XJDano
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 10:54 |
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Congrats on the house. I’d suggest DIY over the summer. Buy either the 8' batts like I did and fill in the other 26" or buy rolls. I bought when it was on sale or rebate from Menards (that seems to not get sent in, that’s how they get you) I have some more to complete. But while the walls are still open run some power around.
Enjoy.
theloudmouth
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 11:46 |
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I insulated mine for all the walls and R50 attic for around $750. This included the drywall, mud, insulation, blown in insulation rental, and other odds and ends. I also had to buy some tools I did not previously have for drywalling that exceeded the $750, but nothing expensive (mud trays, mud knifes, etc). I got used light fixtures for free for a renovation I helped someone with so you’ll have to account for those as well, but the $750 did include Romex to run the light and then socket spacing to code.
LOREM IPSUM
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 12:41 |
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As to the original question on cost... figure out your square footage for each required R value and call around to suppliers to get an idea of what your material costs will be. Plan to order 1 more roll of poly than you think you will need. Don’t forget to include the better part of a case of acoustical sealant and 1-2 rolls of sheathing tape, a box of staples, (and a HAMMER tacker if you’re going to DIY). That will give you an idea of material costs. If you choose to hire an insulation contractor they will be able to get the supplies cheaper than you will, but your material cost will likely be pretty similar.
Add about 20%, which goes into the companies pocket for profit. Add 8-10 cents per square foot for batt installation, and another 8-10 cents per square foot for installation of poly.
If the ceiling is over 10' high, expect any work done above the 10' mark to cost a bit more for overheight.
Expect Roxul to cost more for both the material and installation.
Fwiw, you won’t fit r30 into 2x4 framed walls... at least not without compressing the heck out of the batts thus reducing their R value. This will also make it very difficult to vapor barrier as the staples will want to pull through the poly.
R values vary a bit by region. For example, around here you’ll generally use R14 for above grade 2x4 walls and R20-R24 for 2x6 walls. I’m unsure of the code requirements in the area in question, but keep in mind that many municipalities require an inspection after insulation is completed. Go too thin and they’ll fail you. Do it without permits and inspection and you might run into some serious headaches when the time comes to sell your home.
For 2x4 walls I would recommend r14 (or whatever offerings are close to that in your area). The ceiling should be R28 or R40. (Or whatever offerings are close to that in your area).
If you have a gabled roof, polying and sheeting the ceiling first, then blowing the attic space will yield the best results because of consistent coverage. If it is a flat roof you’ll obviously have to batt first and then poly.
Do not blow the walls. The R value will end up being all over the place, and if you try to do so diy style you’ll probably end up with a clogged hose and a major headache. The only time I’d consider blowing walls is if the place is already finished and you’re hellbent on not removing the wallboard but still want insulation.
In a potentially wet environment like a garage you might want to consider insulating with Roxul mineral fiber. It will not absorb water like standard fiberglass will and is an excellent fire retarder. Be warned though, Roxul is more challenging to install as the batts tend to crumble when cut and handled, and it requires more precise cuts as the batts are much less easily compressed into the cavaties. Personally I would only recommend using Roxul in the walls because installing the stuff over your head is only for sadists as it is gritty, stabby, miserable stuff to work with. Frankly, if you decide to go with Roxul, paying experienced professionals to do the job will be money well spent.
I wouldn’t personally use roll batt. Instead I’d opt for bags of insulation which measure either 15"/16" or 23"/24" in width (depending on stud spacing) and 4 feet in height. Make sure the batts are installed tightly touching one another, with no cracks or holes.
If it is a heated garage, caulk around doors, windows, bottom plate, and anywhere where the poly overlaps (top plate, vertical corners of walls, etc) with acoustical sealant. When overlapping poly, make sure you overlap “on wood”. Do not have the poly overlapping in the middle of a wall or ceiling cavity.
If unheated sometimes it is best to skip the acoustical to allow the structure to breathe a bit so you’re not trapping all of the moisture you end up bringing in with vehicles and to allow carbon monoxide to escape.
I could go on all day...
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LOREM IPSUM
> BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
12/30/2016 at 13:24 |
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Rigid polystyrene insulation is good stuff. Very dense. Pricey though, and can sometimes be a pain to install properly. It’s also very flammable so you MUST sheet the walls afterwards. In the event if a fire the fumes will kill you dead if inhaled.
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shop-teacher
> Tekamul
12/30/2016 at 14:42 |
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Get a couple quotes from insulation contractors. You’d be surprised how cheap they are. They buy crap tons of insulation, so they get it a LOT cheaper. Sometimes doing it yourself can actually cost more, and it’s not a fun job.
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BaconSandwich is tasty.
> shop-teacher
12/30/2016 at 15:03 |
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Interesting.
That’s seriously messed up about the uneven spacing. Although knowing some guys that have worked construction... I’m not too surprised.
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BaconSandwich is tasty.
> OPPOsaurus WRX
12/30/2016 at 15:05 |
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That sounds about what I would expect. Thankfully vapor barrier and drywall seem pretty inexpensive.
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BaconSandwich is tasty.
> BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
12/30/2016 at 15:09 |
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I really don’t mind missing an inch on either side. It’s more so cost that I’d be concerned about. The fire thing that Haadkoe mention would also be a bit of a concern.
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BaconSandwich is tasty.
> shop-teacher
12/30/2016 at 15:12 |
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Interesting, and good to know.
I have a buddy who builds a few houses a year. I should talk to him to see what kind of deal he can get on insulation, and the kind of stuff he normally uses.
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BaconSandwich is tasty.
> Pickup_man
12/30/2016 at 15:15 |
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Nice! That looks roughly the same size as our garage, but it looks like you have a higher roof. Any particular reason you went with OSB instead of drywall?
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BaconSandwich is tasty.
> LOREM IPSUM
12/30/2016 at 15:20 |
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That’s some seriously good advice.
The garage isn’t heated right now, which is part of the reason for wanting to insulate it better. It’ll still likely save me from having to scrape the car windows in the morning, but working in a chilly garage in the dead of winter doesn’t sound too appealing.
I’ll definitely want to do more reading on it before I do anything. Given that we just bought the place, and there’s other priorities to take care of right now, it’ll likely not be insulated for a year or so, unless I find a really good deal on materials between now and next fall.
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BaconSandwich is tasty.
> Frenchlicker
12/30/2016 at 15:22 |
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If I had unlimted money, I’d insulate it with aerogel. :P
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Pickup_man
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 15:22 |
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I’ve got 10' walls, which are super nice because it gives me tons of extra space.
I went with OSB mainly because it was so much faster than putting up drywall, taping, sanding, priming, painting etc, plus now I can screw things directly into the wall wherever I want. I think cost was pretty comparable, but time was the big factor. It took me less time to sheet my entire garage than it did to refinish the taping and painting on the ceiling.
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BaconSandwich is tasty.
> merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc
12/30/2016 at 15:32 |
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Huh. I haven’t seen pink insulation sold in rolls like that before. Now you’ve got me reading about kraft faced vs. unfaced insulation...
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BaconSandwich is tasty.
> Pickup_man
12/30/2016 at 15:35 |
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I’m not too concerned about taping and mudding drywall. I figure when I eventually do it, I’ll just get the stuff up there and not worry about making it look fancy. Even most attached garages around here are only taped and roughly mudded. Few people actually bother painting, from what I’ve seen.
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Pickup_man
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 15:37 |
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I’m not much of a perfectionist, and usually prefer things to look a little disheveled, but I can’t stand unfinished drywall.
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LOREM IPSUM
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 15:55 |
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You’re very welcome. Happy to help. :)
One more thing to add...
When you batt the walls, don’t just cram it in there all willy-nilly. You want the front of the batts to be flush with the front of the studs, not pushed back into the cavity. When you’re done batting you shouldn’t be able to see the sides of the 2x4's at all.
Certain areas around here will fail a job if they consistently see more than 1/4 inch of the sides of the studs exposed.
Basically, the poly should be making contact with 100% of the front of the batt with no air gaps between the batts and the poly.
This will keep moisture from condensing on the back side of the poly and potentially running down the wall.
If the condensation is allowed to run down to the bottom of the wall you can end up with rotted sill plates, and in some cases you might even see water pooling on the floor near the bottom plate.
More than a few people have thought they had water intrusion issues from roofing or siding when in fact it was just a crappy insulation job at fault. Who woulda thunkit?
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shop-teacher
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 16:12 |
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If he builds a few houses a year, he probably doesn’t buy enough to move the needle on the price too much. There are guys who all they do is insulation. They’re the ones who get it much cheaper.
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shop-teacher
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 16:13 |
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Yeah, my dad is a contractor, I worked many a school break for his crew. Man, some of those idiots and some of those things I’ve seen ...
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BaconSandwich is tasty.
> shop-teacher
12/30/2016 at 16:55 |
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One summer in high school I worked with a crew of electricians wiring up a nearby grain elevator. They were some of the most perverted people I’ve met. And some of the on-site painters were absolutely nuts. Hanging off equipment without harnesses, spraying paint everywhere.
Although I’m not sure that tops a story of a buddy of mine. A kid in his shop class decided it would be a good idea to use the acetylene torch to burn a hole... in one of the tanks. Luckily it didn’t kill the kid.
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BaconSandwich is tasty.
> LOREM IPSUM
12/30/2016 at 16:56 |
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Definitely good to know!
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BaconSandwich is tasty.
> Pickup_man
12/30/2016 at 16:57 |
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Fair enough.
pip bip - choose Corrour
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 17:17 |
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insulting a garage? nope!
mine is colour bond sheeting. uninsulated.
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BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
> LOREM IPSUM
12/30/2016 at 17:50 |
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Yeah it definitely goes up well! :S We’ve boarded ours with Sterling Board which adds more cost, but definitely makes it more durable and fireproof...
Clown Shoe Pilot
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 19:41 |
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Go with faced. It’s a LOT easier to install. Cut to length, press into cavity, deploy flaps and staple.
Also, get yourself a pneumatic stapler. I’m using an Arrow PT-50, which uses standard Arrow T-50 staples. You’ve got a compressor, RIGHT? If not, get one of those too because they’re super crazy useful.
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shop-teacher
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 21:19 |
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Sounds about right.
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merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc
> BaconSandwich is tasty.
12/30/2016 at 22:29 |
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Kraft faced is what you want so you can staple or tape it to the studs and it seals up the wall nicely. The unfaced works if you are planning on a vapor barrier on the inside after the insulation. Think visqueen plastic as a vapor barrier, but you shouldn’t need that for the garage.